LOBO Training & Fatalities

[Tom Nalevanko]

I think that I heard at the recent LOBO conference a statement that there has never been a LOBO-trained pilot fatality? Well, a friend has called BS on this... e says there are easily a handful with Neal Longwill being the latest? Perhaps it depends on the definition of a LOBO trained pilot? What would be a true statement on this? Thanks
Best,
Tom

[George Wehrung]

Hi Tom,

Neil did not complete his training as he did not want to do the IFR portion 61.57 instrument proficiency check although he was encouraged to do so. We require this of all IFR rated pilots just because of this type of mishap. Many of us instructors have heard statements such as “I won’t use my IFR rating or I don’t fly IFR, etc.”.

Neil’s accident was sad because he just left the LOBO Landing and flew into IFR conditions…

Supposedly people tried to deter Neil from leaving during that time as well. Jeff Edwards has the exact details.


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[Ryan Riley]

Tom,

GA is inherently a high risk activity and our goal is to minimize the risks. LOBO currency training addresses perishable skills and is an opportunity to learn from others.

Lancair are high performance aircraft and the LOBO syllabus is structured very similarly to professional flying currency programs. LOBO instructors are professional pilots (Part 135, 121, Military, etc.) who are also Lancair owners. We believe that high quality training results in high quality aviators.

Does that mean LOBO trained pilots are risk-free? No, it doesn't. But it does mean that those pilots have a statistically higher chance of a favorable outcome should they have an accident/incident.

I am a LOBO instructor because I believe in the brand, the lifestyle of Lancair ownership, and that well-trained pilots make for safer skies.

Any of the LOBO instructors are happy to discuss the program. Please reach out to me any time as I love talking about flying, training, and of course, Lancairs.

[Matt Speare]

Tom:

From a data perspective, your statement is false. Tom Sullivan and others have scrubbed the records backwards and forwards, There is little doubt that the statement for a pilot who has "completed" the LOBO training syllabus with one of our preferred instructors, there has not been a fatality. That is why we spend so much time and effort in the selection of instructors and encouraging Lancair owners to undergo our Transition (Initial) Training AND annual recurrent training. A pilot who is always training is inherently a safer pilot.

Matt

[Tom Sullivan]

I think that I heard at the recent LOBO conference a statement that there has never been a LOBO-trained pilot fatality? Well, a friend has called BS on this... e says there are easily a handful with Neal Longwill being the latest? Perhaps it depends on the definition of a LOBO trained pilot? What would be a true statement on this? Thanks
Best,
Tom

Tom,

Your friend does NOT have the facts. LOBO has kept records of every pilot that has "Completed" the LOBO Type group approved training since the training began. Some pilots have taken VFR training from one of the "Approved instructors" but declined to complete the IFR phase of the training. LOBO has always made it clear to get the training certificate, all phases of the training syllabus must be completed. In addition, there have been some cases where pilots "Claimed" to have completed the LOBO Training with their insurance agent when, in fact, they DID NOT. A follow up by LOBO with the "involved instructor" has found these cases were students who didn't complete the training and KNEW they had more training needed to get the certificate.

I was the one that completed the most recent accident study. I was also the one with the LOBO Type Approved Training List that went back to 2009 and the first training event. Amazingly enough, there's never been a fatal of ANYONE completing the training, even just once 15 years ago. I had intended to research fatal accidents to see any correlation to "Currently LOBO Trained" pilots, fully expecting there would likely be one of a pilot that hadn't received training recently. There was not a one.

If your "friend" would like to clarify some of the other pilots in the "handful" he is claiming, we can vet that out as well.

Tom Sullivan

[Chris Zavatson]

Tom,
Is there enough of a sample size to break down the non-fatals by cause and see any trends?

I was involved in the review of all 2-seat Lancair accidents a few years ago. You had everything from not qualified/shouldn't be flying to not being aware of required maintenance to flying with known deficiencies to just plain dumb decision making and more.

[Tom Sullivan]

Tom,
Is there enough of a sample size to break down the non-fatals by cause and see any trends?

I was involved in the review of all 2-seat Lancair accidents a few years ago. You had everything from not qualified/shouldn't be flying to not being aware of required maintenance to flying with known deficiencies to just plain dumb decision making and more.

Chris,

Sorry for the slow response. I don't get on this Forum as often as I should. You couldn't be more correct; as to the large percentage of accidents that derive from "not qualified", flying with known discrepancies, and ADM. And yes, there have been a few accidents (non-fatal) with borderline ADM issues in the LOBO Trained group, but it seems to be the exception rather than the rule. The theme I discovered was nearly all the accidents with LOBO Trained pilots were mechanical (and several serious ones like engine out with little altitude) that had a much better result than would be expected from the masses.

The most painful ones (fatal) are the loss of the Legacy after the St. Louis LOBO Convention and the recent 360 in Wisconsin, by an ATP with THOUSANDS of hours, flying into bad weather. The St Louis one really bothered Richard McSpadden (Spad) because he had just hosted several talks during the convention about Safety! What he didn't know, was the pilot had skipped the Safety Seminars to go to the "ARCH" with the ladies. Jeff, Bob, and I watched him leave while we were installing the Starter Generator on George's IVPT. He had recent training but declined to perform the IFR portion. The weather could have been flown around, or the trip could have been delayed a day. Jeff, me and our wives elected to drive from McCall to Sun River for this years convention because of low weather and icing in the mountains. It created some hardship for both couples, but we are still here to talk about it!

I DID NOT do a further dive into the "Trends". Probably a good project for the future. By the time my wife and I completed the last study (over 400 man hours), I needed to get back on projects that had been tabled for THAT labor intensive project.

Tom